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  • #61
    Originally posted by GW_OK View Post
    At the beginning of the article they mention the "flow cells" and "usb device" as being separate entities. Also, on the ONT website, they say you can dry down the flowcells before you send them back, a condition of the early access program. This, to me, seems as though the MinIon can accept single use cartridges.
    Ah this may is the part that has taken them long to optimize.

    It would make sense if the USB device (MinIon) was $1K and the "flowcells" were priced separately, dare we expect "reasonably".

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    • #62
      Colleagues attending ASHG asked some questions for me. Here's the answers they got:
      1) How many pores/average read lengths/flowcell lifespan hours can one expect in the early access Minions?
      No info on pore number, they are no reporting it. Read length 5-15kb, lifespan 6-8 hrs. Accuracy depends on speed of reading.

      2) What's the shelf life of a Minion flow cell?
      Could not report to me a shelf life.

      3) Can Minions be used for multiple samples like a Gridion cassette?
      Single use only.

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      • #63
        Thanks a lot for that GW_OK!

        I guess the only way the minions are winning is if they can extend the lifespan of the flowcells.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by GenoMax View Post
          It would make sense if the USB device (MinIon) was $1K and the "flowcells" were priced separately, dare we expect "reasonably".
          I have a feeling this is going to be a razor blade marketing strategy. They mention the "flow cells" as being $999. I'll bet you get the Minion free with your first purchase, then you pay for the $1k flowcell every time you want to run it.

          Actually, on even further reading, I bet you pay $1k refundable deposit on the device, then $1k for every run on said device, and you can get your deposit back on return of the device.

          Of course this is all speculation at the moment and based solely on interpreting the press release of a very secretive company.

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          • #65
            Go read this about library preps and some nice pics of the minion.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by GW_OK View Post
              Colleagues attending ASHG asked some questions for me. Here's the answers they got:
              1) How many pores/average read lengths/flowcell lifespan hours can one expect in the early access Minions?
              No info on pore number, they are no reporting it. Read length 5-15kb, lifespan 6-8 hrs. Accuracy depends on speed of reading.

              2) What's the shelf life of a Minion flow cell?
              Could not report to me a shelf life.

              3) Can Minions be used for multiple samples like a Gridion cassette?
              Single use only.
              I visited their booth and got slightly different info for point 1:

              - lifespan 20hrs
              - expect 400 functioning pores per minion cell
              - speed/accuracy is indeed dialable, with speeds between 10bp/sec and 100bp/sec

              Again, this is all by recollection alone (so may be wrong), but I thought it might be of interest. Is anyone in the early access program?

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              • #67
                Originally posted by genlyai View Post
                Is anyone in the early access program?
                Originally posted by twitter
                Karen James @kejames
                @SFriedScientist I learned a little more about @nanopore’s MinION today from someone at @jacksonlab who is going to get early access. Squee.
                I'm guessing the fix is in for a number of early access people, most likely those 40-ish who got to actually see one running at ASHG, plus a few other of the twitterati who seem to know things before most.

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                • #68
                  Now HiSeqX is announced. Can Girdion compete based on its paper spec announced so far?

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                  • #69
                    It can certainly compete on equipment cost and minimum run cost. ONP has previously claimed that GridION will have sub-$1000 genome sequencing (and not just for human), so I'm guessing yes.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by gringer View Post
                      It can certainly compete on equipment cost and minimum run cost. ONP has previously claimed that GridION will have sub-$1000 genome sequencing (and not just for human), so I'm guessing yes.
                      Google tells me even for GridION 8000, their reagent cost is $20-30/Gb.

                      But HiSeqX is $800/90 = $8.89/Gb

                      Certainly their $30K for the box claim can make up a lot of ground

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by ymc View Post
                        Google tells me even for GridION 8000, their reagent cost is $20-30/Gb.

                        But HiSeqX is $800/90 = $8.89/Gb

                        Certainly their $30K for the box claim can make up a lot of ground
                        There was a per-Gb cost estimate for the minion that somebody posted, I just can't find it right now. It was ~10x that of a Hiseq and ~2-3x that of Pacbio, sample prep and reagents not included. That was based on the stated flowcell price of $1k and a run time of about 6 hrs, which is the only hard information available about ONT to the general public. There has been zero talk about the gridion even from ONT, so I don't know how their previous claims can be taken as anything more than a marketing spiel.

                        Let's give them time to actually show that they can sequence and then speculate how they will take over the world. When expectations meet reality, it is usually the latter that retains its reputation. If their early access program is for real some actual information should start coming out this year... unless the fine print at the bottom of the early access application reads "please allow 3-5 years for processing"

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by BBoy View Post
                          There was a per-Gb cost estimate for the minion that somebody posted, I just can't find it right now. It was ~10x that of a Hiseq and ~2-3x that of Pacbio, sample prep and reagents not included. That was based on the stated flowcell price of $1k and a run time of about 6 hrs, which is the only hard information available about ONT to the general public. There has been zero talk about the gridion even from ONT, so I don't know how their previous claims can be taken as anything more than a marketing spiel.

                          Let's give them time to actually show that they can sequence and then speculate how they will take over the world. When expectations meet reality, it is usually the latter that retains its reputation. If their early access program is for real some actual information should start coming out this year... unless the fine print at the bottom of the early access application reads "please allow 3-5 years for processing"
                          Yeah. But even that marketing spiel years ago doesn't sound that good any more when HiSeq X spec is announced. Assuming they can come up with it in two years in the most optimistic scenario, Illumina will go to another gen. It seems more and more likely after waiting for so many years, they might still not be able to dethrone Illumina except for applications requiring long reads and minion for outdoor use.

                          I suppose their VC backers are wetting their pants now.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by ymc View Post
                            I suppose their VC backers are wetting their pants now.
                            Some of the VCs may not fully comprehend the full barriers to entry over and above the sequencing itself (sample prep, informatics pipelines, understood error profiles, etc) but they are no dummies. They had a new funding round very recently, so unless they completely misrepresented themselves to their investors there must be something there for real. I can't believe that anyone would give them any new money at this stage if they cannot produce some type of sequencing-related data. For example, PacBio did suck in $600M of VC money that will probably never be fully recouped, but they were not all smoke and mirrors and have mounted a niche comeback as of late.

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by BBoy View Post
                              Some of the VCs may not fully comprehend the full barriers to entry over and above the sequencing itself (sample prep, informatics pipelines, understood error profiles, etc) but they are no dummies. They had a new funding round very recently, so unless they completely misrepresented themselves to their investors there must be something there for real. I can't believe that anyone would give them any new money at this stage if they cannot produce some type of sequencing-related data. For example, PacBio did suck in $600M of VC money that will probably never be fully recouped, but they were not all smoke and mirrors and have mounted a niche comeback as of late.
                              I am sure the VCs saw nice thing when they put in money last round. However, they are likely to be caught in surprise for this mini-breakthough of HiSeq X that churns out 10x the throughput of HiSeq 2500. It seems now more and more likely nanopore can only be niche player that might only offer the VCs a break even return at best.

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                              • #75
                                At least we can now start to judge for ourselves.
                                We got an invitation to join MAP and I suspect I'm not the only one.
                                I'm hoping we can soon produce some real data and make comparisons based on actual facts and not speculation.

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