Originally posted by ECO
View Post
Seqanswers Leaderboard Ad
Collapse
Announcement
Collapse
No announcement yet.
X
-
WSJ is reporting today the bid is definitely targeting the healthcare potential (as I had suspected yesterday). They are also saying that majority of illumina investors do not want to tender their shares unless Roche's offer tops $70 per share (price many of top investors apparently paid before the price slide late last year).
Comment
-
Keith, there is a large difference between what is currently pushed in the news, grants and university press releases. What we both imagine, is basically a take over of what is being done on cap sequencers, sure Mayo does that exome/multi amplicon thing for prostate cancer for probably a few grand (they probably don't even care about cost at this point).
No one has done a true blind clinical study or even calculated the clinical benefits of this. I have yet to see a full cost analysis of a blind clinical study... So sure, I appreciate that, but it is a far cry from creating a 501K box, get approval on both kit and machine, manufacture under ISO 13485 and have 21CFR11 software for WG Analysis... Sure the buffer and the enzyme could cost zero... but that is a weird reversed razor and blade system that I suspect manufacturers will not enter into because genomes demand will simply be over estimated...
I could not agree more with Emily Walsh who released 'Angry at the Genome' this week
"My fear is that for most complex diseases there are not enough patients on earth (in extant generations) to differentiate fully between individuals who will develop disease and those who will not. In fact, current research suggests that we’ve now sampled enough of the complex genetic-disease patient population to be able to definitively rule out the possibility for many diseases. Moreover, the data suggests that while we may be able to eventually describe all the alleles that confer risk to disease, we will never be able to pinpoint for most patients, even related patients, the precise set of variants that gave them their disease. Or to quote a Boston sage: “we will never be able to differentiate casual from causal” at the level of the patient."
To further establish the complexity of WGS in a diagnostic field, one only needs to look at the most profitable sequencing business of all, one that is standardize and... to a certain extent... is a matter of life and death... Forensic sequencing still depends almost exclusively on capillary sequencing and almost no NGS inroads have been made. Purely for complex regulation and technical issues.
There is a dubious message out there that comparing a static cancer cell with a normal cell will enable a doctor to look up a magic medication on an Ipad that will save lives. Yeah maybe... but l will remain skeptic, after all, as we can see, the amounts involved, the CEO's call to investors and the patent lawyers would all agree with 'the revolution'.
This is mostly why I think Roche is probably the best player in this game, Illumina, because of the front end, one of the best target. I think ILMN will play 'hard to get' and Roche, as seen in the past will not give another dollar. This bubble will not be endless. Just go back in time, I can certainly remember when my CRA stocks were at 172 before they fell to 8... As of yesterday, a new bubble is in the works, some people will go full throttle, others will warn. Some will just look at it from a simplistic "by gosh, 100$ for a genome !''.
Apologies for my rant, I just think it is not expressed often enough on this board. I have and will remain an advocate of molecular technologies.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Elcannibal View PostKeith, there is a large difference between what is currently pushed in the news, grants and university press releases. What we both imagine, is basically a take over of what is being done on cap sequencers, sure Mayo does that exome/multi amplicon thing for prostate cancer for probably a few grand (they probably don't even care about cost at this point).
Originally posted by Elcannibal View PostNo one has done a true blind clinical study or even calculated the clinical benefits of this. I have yet to see a full cost analysis of a blind clinical study... So sure, I appreciate that, but it is a far cry from creating a 501K box, get approval on both kit and machine, manufacture under ISO 13485 and have 21CFR11 software for WG Analysis... Sure the buffer and the enzyme could cost zero... but that is a weird reversed razor and blade system that I suspect manufacturers will not enter into because genomes demand will simply be over estimated...
I could not agree more with Emily Walsh who released 'Angry at the Genome' this week
"My fear is that for most complex diseases there are not enough patients on earth (in extant generations) to differentiate fully between individuals who will develop disease and those who will not. In fact, current research suggests that we’ve now sampled enough of the complex genetic-disease patient population to be able to definitively rule out the possibility for many diseases. Moreover, the data suggests that while we may be able to eventually describe all the alleles that confer risk to disease, we will never be able to pinpoint for most patients, even related patients, the precise set of variants that gave them their disease. Or to quote a Boston sage: “we will never be able to differentiate casual from causal” at the level of the patient."
To further establish the complexity of WGS in a diagnostic field, one only needs to look at the most profitable sequencing business of all, one that is standardize and... to a certain extent... is a matter of life and death... Forensic sequencing still depends almost exclusively on capillary sequencing and almost no NGS inroads have been made. Purely for complex regulation and technical issues.
Originally posted by Elcannibal View PostThere is a dubious message out there that comparing a static cancer cell with a normal cell will enable a doctor to look up a magic medication on an Ipad that will save lives. Yeah maybe... but l will remain skeptic, after all, as we can see, the amounts involved, the CEO's call to investors and the patent lawyers would all agree with 'the revolution'.
Comment
-
-
Originally posted by ECO View PostSource? This is definitely worthy of a new thread if true.
Or the direct link to the ABI webinar is here.
I tend to be cynical. But, especially if Roche takes Illumina over, it is not impossible that the SOLiD could be back in the game with Wildfire on the 5500W instruments.
--
Phillip
Comment
-
Not to knock LIFE at all, but my hunch is the fact that Joe Beecham (future gen R&D leader) is presenting this in January means it's not going to be productized and launched in summer. I could be wrong though, it happens.
Comment
-
Originally posted by rskr View PostOne thing for sure, is that 454 is not competitive. Maybe there would be some other way to interpret the take over, but if 454 were competitive with Illumina, then why would they need Illumina?
But maybe the sequencing market is too diverse and would benefit from some coalescence.
--
Phillip
Comment
-
Originally posted by pmiguel View PostAll I am saying is, if Roche had put an amount of money/resources into continued development of the 454 platform to what they are poised to spend on acquiring Illumina, they could have a competitive instrument now. Post Titanium they lost focus. I think they diverted resources to the development of the 454Jr at that critical juncture.
When the roche deal was first announced there was mention in several articles about roche "failing to keep" or "forcing out" jonathan rothberg. I think that was another huge mistake on their part.
Comment
-
Originally posted by pmiguel View PostAll I am saying is, if Roche had put an amount of money/resources into continued development of the 454 platform to what they are poised to spend on acquiring Illumina, they could have a competitive instrument now. Post Titanium they lost focus. I think they diverted resources to the development of the 454Jr at that critical juncture.
Maybe they just saw that the technology was going to become obsolete no matter what and decided it would not be worthwhile to further invest in it.
Comment
-
-
This even happens intra-muros, when large companies benefit mostly from cutting back. I would be very surprised if Life follows through on the 5500 plans. Decision makers have already looked at the 5500 return on investment, don't expect a youtube commercial on that one... All sailors to the Proton galley...
Comment
-
Originally posted by pmiguel View PostNo. That is my point. Roche was not at that big of a disadvantage.
--
Phillip
Comment
Latest Articles
Collapse
-
by seqadmin
Technological advances have led to drastic improvements in the field of precision medicine, enabling more personalized approaches to treatment. This article explores four leading groups that are overcoming many of the challenges of genomic profiling and precision medicine through their innovative platforms and technologies.
Somatic Genomics
“We have such a tremendous amount of genetic diversity that exists within each of us, and not just between us as individuals,”...-
Channel: Articles
05-24-2024, 01:16 PM -
-
by seqadmin
The sequencing world is rapidly changing due to declining costs, enhanced accuracies, and the advent of newer, cutting-edge instruments. Equally important to these developments are improvements in sequencing analysis, a process that converts vast amounts of raw data into a comprehensible and meaningful form. This complex task requires expertise and the right analysis tools. In this article, we highlight the progress and innovation in sequencing analysis by reviewing several of the...-
Channel: Articles
05-06-2024, 07:48 AM -
ad_right_rmr
Collapse
News
Collapse
Topics | Statistics | Last Post | ||
---|---|---|---|---|
Started by seqadmin, Yesterday, 06:55 AM
|
0 responses
12 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by seqadmin
Yesterday, 06:55 AM
|
||
Started by seqadmin, 05-30-2024, 03:16 PM
|
0 responses
24 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by seqadmin
05-30-2024, 03:16 PM
|
||
Comprehensive Sequencing of Great Ape Sex Chromosomes Yields Insights into Evolution and Genetic Variability
by seqadmin
Started by seqadmin, 05-29-2024, 01:32 PM
|
0 responses
29 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by seqadmin
05-29-2024, 01:32 PM
|
||
Started by seqadmin, 05-24-2024, 07:15 AM
|
0 responses
215 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by seqadmin
05-24-2024, 07:15 AM
|
Comment