Unconfigured Ad

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • highlei
    Junior Member
    • Aug 2011
    • 2

    #1

    size factors in DESeq

    My case is:
    We have a deep-sequencing for RNA: two samples (WT and mutation) and 3 replicates for each one.
    These small RNA sequences were map to ref-genome.
    The ref-genome was seperated into 500bp windows along the whole genome.
    We wanna identify the windows with decreased express from WT to Mutation.

    Firstly, I try to use two different methods to estimate the size factors.
    1. I try to use total counts of reads to estimate the size factors.
    p_adj < 0.05 53,866 windows were got.
    2. I try to use the estimateSizeFactors to estimate the size factors.
    p_adj < 0.05 4,555 windows were got.

    Secondly, since the genome is long, I make a filter: the windows with total raw counts in all 6 libraries < 50 were discarded.
    1. I try to use total counts of reads to estimate the size factors.
    p_adj < 0.05 48,005 windows were got.
    2. I try to use the estimateSizeFactors to estimate the size factors.
    p_adj < 0.05 464 windows were got.
    I donot know I should use the total counts or use estimateSizeFactors to estimate the size factors.
  • Simon Anders
    Senior Member
    • Feb 2010
    • 995

    #2
    To check whether your normalization is good, compare two samples with an MvA plot, as follows:

    First, get the normalized counts:
    Code:
    ncounts <- counts( cds, normalized=TRUE )
    # or, for the release version:
    ncounts <- t( t( counts(cds) ) / sizeFactors(cds) )
    The, plot the mean of, say samples 1 and 2, versus their ratio:
    Code:
    plot( 
       ( ncounts[,2] + ncounts[,1] )/2,
       ncounts[,2] / ncounts[,1],
       log="xy", pch="." )
    abline( h = 1)
    If the normalization is good, the bulk of the counts should lie on the horizontal line marking equal value in both samples.

    You can also plot each sample against the mean of all the other samples:
    Code:
    means <- rowMeans( ncounts )
    plot( 
       means,
       ncounts[,2] / means,
       log="xy", pch="." )
    abline( h = 1)
    Further remarks:

    - "We have a deep-sequencing for RNA: two samples (WT and mutation) and 3 replicates for each one." I hope you mean that you have six samples, 3 WT and 3 mutation. if you really just have sequenced the same sample three times (as you wrote), you better start over.

    - "We wanna identify the windows with decreased express from WT to Mutation." Do you have reason to believe that there is much more down-regulation than up-regulation? If so, you may need a custom normalization procedure (even though the new option "locfunc=shorth" in the devel version of DESeq might already help).

    Comment

    • highlei
      Junior Member
      • Aug 2011
      • 2

      #3
      Thanks for your reply.

      - "We have a deep-sequencing for RNA: two samples (WT and mutation) and 3 replicates for each one." I hope you mean that you have six samples, 3 WT and 3 mutation.
      Yes. I have six samples.
      - "We wanna identify the windows with decreased express from WT to Mutation." Do you have reason to believe that there is much more down-regulation than up-regulation?
      Yes. We mutate a key protein in the pathway.

      I have used your code to plot figures. But I don't know how to evaluate the figures.

      6.ge50.1.jpg sizeFactors with the total counts.
      6.ge50.2.jpg sizeFactors with the total counts.
      6.ge50.SF.1.jpg sizeFactors with estimateSizeFactor.
      6.ge50.SF.2.jpg sizeFactors with estimateSizeFactor.
      Attached Files
      Last edited by highlei; 08-10-2011, 04:00 PM.

      Comment

      • alittleboy
        Member
        • Apr 2011
        • 60

        #4
        Originally posted by Simon Anders View Post
        To check whether your normalization is good, compare two samples with an MvA plot, as follows:

        First, get the normalized counts:
        Code:
        ncounts <- counts( cds, normalized=TRUE )
        # or, for the release version:
        ncounts <- t( t( counts(cds) ) / sizeFactors(cds) )
        The, plot the mean of, say samples 1 and 2, versus their ratio:
        Code:
        plot( 
           ( ncounts[,2] + ncounts[,1] )/2,
           ncounts[,2] / ncounts[,1],
           log="xy", pch="." )
        abline( h = 1)
        If the normalization is good, the bulk of the counts should lie on the horizontal line marking equal value in both samples.

        You can also plot each sample against the mean of all the other samples:
        Code:
        means <- rowMeans( ncounts )
        plot( 
           means,
           ncounts[,2] / means,
           log="xy", pch="." )
        abline( h = 1)
        Further remarks:

        - "We have a deep-sequencing for RNA: two samples (WT and mutation) and 3 replicates for each one." I hope you mean that you have six samples, 3 WT and 3 mutation. if you really just have sequenced the same sample three times (as you wrote), you better start over.

        - "We wanna identify the windows with decreased express from WT to Mutation." Do you have reason to believe that there is much more down-regulation than up-regulation? If so, you may need a custom normalization procedure (even though the new option "locfunc=shorth" in the devel version of DESeq might already help).
        So just curious: when having 6 samples, to check the performance of normalization, shall I plot/check all pairwise MA-plot (e.g. 1 vs. 2, 1 vs. 3, etc.)? I am a little confused as I think normalization is done for different samples (liver vs. kidney, say) -- but in the code, ncounts[ ,1] refers to replicate 1 of the first sample?

        Comment

        Latest Articles

        Collapse

        • SEQadmin2
          Multiomic Liquid Biopsy: What DNA/RNA Panels Reveal That DNA Alone Can’t
          by SEQadmin2



          Tumors contain complex mixtures of cell populations that evolve in response to treatment and host-specific factors. Tissue biopsies provide only static snapshots of a tumor’s state. But what if we could follow that evolution over time using a minimally invasive technique?

          Liquid biopsies can detect tumor-derived material circulating in the bloodstream, providing a way to study treatment response, detect emerging resistance, and discover new biomarkers. Circulating
          ...
          10-14-2026, 09:55 AM
        • SEQadmin2
          New Genomics Technologies Take Aim at Long-Standing Limits
          by SEQadmin2


          Researchers using sequencing and genomics tools often have to make trade-offs. They can choose between speed or scale, short reads or long-range information, or targeted panels or a view of the whole transcriptome. New technologies that have been released this year are built to address those tough choices.

          We asked six companies the same four questions to learn about their latest products. The new technologies bring a lot to the table, including rethinking sequencing
          ...
          09-28-2026, 10:25 AM

        ad_right_rmr

        Collapse

        News

        Collapse

        Topics Statistics Last Post
        Started by SEQadmin2, Today, 11:13 AM
        0 responses
        12 views
        0 reactions
        Last Post SEQadmin2  
        Started by SEQadmin2, Today, 10:48 AM
        0 responses
        11 views
        0 reactions
        Last Post SEQadmin2  
        Started by SEQadmin2, 10-15-2026, 10:52 AM
        0 responses
        32 views
        0 reactions
        Last Post SEQadmin2  
        Started by SEQadmin2, 10-14-2026, 05:39 AM
        0 responses
        40 views
        0 reactions
        Last Post SEQadmin2  
        Working...